Leafs part ways with Berube
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
I think people are pushing the "leaks we don't like are actually fake news" idea a little too hard lately honestly. Speaking of...
herman
Well-known member
I dunno, feels like I'm on to something
Per Friedman they did interviews with 15 candidates via zoom, and hey they can't all be winners at that number. I'd be more worried if we find out that he makes the cut for the next round of interviews.
I think many have said it: the window is obviously closing for this roster
Therefore, it is very unlikely to end well for whoever comes in to coach.
They're very unlikely to win a Cup any time soon.
"Let's find a coach to help Matthews get back to the playoffs and then, when Matthews tells us to take a hike because he wants to win a Cup, we'll count our playoff money and rebuild .."
To have any hope of keeping Matthews around, they need a credible coach.
But to land a credible coach, he'd probably like to see a credible possibility to win.
That won't be easy in the wake of a Cup winning coach finishing 28th with an aged D and shallow prospect system
They have to beat a lot of bushes to find someone to take this on.
Thus, the "leaks"
Matthews is likely to make the GM decision to rebuild for them
To me, the sooner they figure that out, the better it will be for all concerned
Therefore, it is very unlikely to end well for whoever comes in to coach.
They're very unlikely to win a Cup any time soon.
"Let's find a coach to help Matthews get back to the playoffs and then, when Matthews tells us to take a hike because he wants to win a Cup, we'll count our playoff money and rebuild .."
To have any hope of keeping Matthews around, they need a credible coach.
But to land a credible coach, he'd probably like to see a credible possibility to win.
That won't be easy in the wake of a Cup winning coach finishing 28th with an aged D and shallow prospect system
They have to beat a lot of bushes to find someone to take this on.
Thus, the "leaks"
Matthews is likely to make the GM decision to rebuild for them
To me, the sooner they figure that out, the better it will be for all concerned
Joe S.
Moderator
No rational person could.
ZBBM
Well-known member
I don't get the thinking that Matthews is practically out the door in two years. If they make the playoffs both years and get out of the first round, I can see him wanting to stay a Leaf.
Honestly, the wildcard here is goaltending. AA is showing some real progress in the Marlies playoff run ... they look to have a better-than-average tandem going forward. You never know, if the goalies go on a heater they might actually find their way to the SCF.
Honestly, the wildcard here is goaltending. AA is showing some real progress in the Marlies playoff run ... they look to have a better-than-average tandem going forward. You never know, if the goalies go on a heater they might actually find their way to the SCF.
I do wonder with Tortorella parachuting in with 8 games to go in the regular season - like Larry Robinson did in 2000 - whether that will become more common. Average length of NHL coach employment is 2.3 years - which is pretty brutal - only 3 have been in their position more than 4 years (so it is really worse than that) - only 9 more than 2 years.
There is a part of me wondering how much it matters when they're so disposable
There is a part of me wondering how much it matters when they're so disposable
Every season, every team has some sort of a shot at a Cup. Maybe it is as low as a million to 1 but ...
He has all star selections, Calder, Hart, Richard, Lindsay trophies
Olympic gold, junior gold, Swiss Championship
Leafs scoring records. American scoring records
He'd probably like to add a World Championship
But the big thing missing from his resume is a Stanley Cup
He might be watching his buddy Mitch skating around with a Cup over his head and maybe a Conn Smythe under his arm in the next couple of weeks ....
If Matthews can win a Cup, he's a shoe-in for the HHoF (if he isn't already)
Ideally, he'd like to win one while he is a key contributor. Leafs can't likely offer him that - they're well past their best-before-date and the rebuild will take too long. Like Mitch, he's very likely going to have to go elsewhere if he wants a Cup ring. That is what his agent and advisors are going to be telling him. And the lure of US tax breaks ..
He won't make any noise about that until it is time to do so. That will hold the media at bay. I'm sure he doesn't want to go through the circus Marner did but we'll probably know within a year or so - after next season is over so he doesn't have to get hassled by the media incessantly. Hopefully, they'll get more than a 4th line center. I'd love to be wrong but I do not see him finishing his career here.
herman
Well-known member
There are three types of coaches in the league. The bulk of them are, yes, disposable mercenaries. A subset are just plain poop and not capable of succeeding in the game nowadays. And an even smaller subset are builders who have established a foundation and identity that is aligned with the front office strategy.
I think the Leafs are trying to pursue that 3rd option (Cooper, Bednar, Scott Bowman). Shanahan and Dubas both tried with Babcock and Keefe. Treliving thought Berube was a builder but he’s some mix of the other two types.
L K
Well-known member
No offence to the work that some of our goalies put up over the years, but honestly, there was maybe only one or two series in the Matthews era were we had the better goaltender at the end of the round. It's hard to blame the goalie too much when the team only scores 1 or 2 goals but it's also hard to score more when your goalie is going to let in a back breaker.
herman
Well-known member
I also think some interpretations of the Leafs impending demise making Toronto no longer a fashionable choice for the Matthews and top coaches of the NHL are a bit off: these people have tremendous egos. They envision themselves to be the one that fixes the problem, that pushes the team over the top, that hear the fans tilt the Richter Scale, that hoists the championship trophy in the highest stakes under the brightest lights.
This is the Toronto Maple Leafs, the biggest team in the best hockey league in the world, with the biggest, craziest fanbase.
Anyone shying from the spotlight, or feeling like the pressure is too much, or doesn't think the team build is good enough for their liking can go kick rocks.
This is the Toronto Maple Leafs, the biggest team in the best hockey league in the world, with the biggest, craziest fanbase.
Anyone shying from the spotlight, or feeling like the pressure is too much, or doesn't think the team build is good enough for their liking can go kick rocks.
Scotty Bowman looked teams over before hooking up with them
Cooper & Bednar would be the same.
When Babcock came, Leafs had Kadri, Rielly & Nylander, Brown, Joshua, etc, had lots of good picks to come, drafted Marner and then got Matthews the following season. they were in the basement on their way up.
Right now, the Leafs are in the basement on the way down. It is much harder to attract a great coach because that coach has to wait for all the drafting and development to take place - which takes years.
Likewise, if Matthews wants to win a Cup, it will take years before they're a true contender again.
Throwing silly money at a coach trying to hang on to Matthews for a year to get playoff revenue will make little business sense if you have to burn the playoff revenue in advance to land that coach.
I do not see why a top tier coach would come at this time. Build up the prospects. Collect a bunch of picks and develop them. Once they're starting to contend for the playoffs, Then bring in the super duper coach to help them. Bringing them in now seems too soon to me
Barf.
herman
Well-known member
Because a coach usually needs 2 years to get a real system going and to get to know and grow with key personnel; Leafs can offer that easily at above market rates, where the USD salary goes a little bit farther in Canada. Coaching the Leafs also comes will all the perks of Toronto: MLSE travel and food and whatever accommodations for family.
Coaching this iteration of the Leafs gives a coach reasonably solid goaltending, a highly motivated AUSTON MATTHEWS, Nylander, Tavares, this year's 1st overall pick that they can develop from the ground up.
If the coach even does pretty okay, it's a playoff team. If the coach is one of those that's truly good, winning the Cup in Toronto is the pinnacle achievement.
herman
Well-known member
If he plugs his ears with his Cup rings for every Simmons question, that’s kind of worth it.
Here’s the segment
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I meant to add that by all accounts the initial meeting Berube had with Chayka/Sundin reportedly went so well that people didn't think the firing was going to happen, so that note probably shouldn't mean too much. But it's a Rogers employee in Friedman confirming that a meeting did in fact happen.