Your ref blaming is over the top. The division is passing the leafs by. You can’t lose to bad teams. These let down games is exactly what has defined the Matthews era. They didn’t show up tonight. They weren’t ready to play. How can that happen when it’s such a dog fight in division. And we know they never in in Vancouver.
Flames vs. Leafs - Oct. 26th, 8:30pm - SN+
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
I was tempted to say something an hour ago but why bother. Some people always look for the negatives and that's all they post 90% of the time. When the Leafs do well or have good moments during the game....crickets.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Rough game for him. I guess he was due at some point.
Frank E
Well-known member
The soft goals that Bob should have stopped sucked the life out of the team early, then add in the turnovers and penalties with some underwhelming pressure on a young team, and you have a gift for Calgary fans.
On to Seattle.
On to Seattle.
herman
Well-known member
Big difference this year from previous (see both clips)
This is a real team. They’ve got some execution stuff to sort out, and some injury obstacles to overcome, but this is a real team now, not just co-workers.
This is a real team. They’ve got some execution stuff to sort out, and some injury obstacles to overcome, but this is a real team now, not just co-workers.
Bender
Well-known member
Can't overstate how important it is to take accountability, learn from it and move on. I'm still worried about Bob, but I like the rest of the team for the most part.
Bobrovsky's last Vezina was nearly ten years ago
Goalies start to tail off in their 30s
At 38, a Vezina season seems like very wishful thinking
Tim Thomas did it at 36, Fleury 35 - the oldest in recent times
Plante did it at 39 but NHL expansion played a factor in that.
A goalie can easily hit a wall anytime after 33. Their reaction time starts to tail off. Bobrovsky's fitness probably extends that.
Bobrovsky's been a little below average. A little above average is probably his high water mark.
I didn't think any of the goals last night were soft but a couple of them seemed stoppable - first one in particular where he butterflied down on an angled shot that went high. One of them seemed like a really good shot that would have eluded a bunch of NHLers.
rjd
Well-known member
I'm glad you asked that question. I think sometimes we need to try and understand one another on this board a little more. Somebody posting a lot of negative comments might be an indicator of something else other than just that they are frustrated with the Leafs losing. Only way to really know for sure is to ask. If they don't offer up anything then that is on them, but if we don't try, then that is on us.
I think it's the way that comments about the negativity gets framed sometimes that causes the issue. This is all written word, which is a tough form of communication. Things can be interpreted differently. Most of humanities problems can be traced back to the fact that we just don't communicate well on the whole,, and it feels like we are getting worse in that area year by year.
All of us should keep in mind that we don't know the other people on the other side of the computer. You don't know what that person is going through. True, sometimes people only show up to post negative comments, but maybe that this their way of coping. It's on them to communicate where the negativity is coming from.
I know that I have been over the top in the past. When I have a chance to calm down, I do regret that. It's hard to articulate sometimes why I am so angry. For example, Ottawa games are tough for me. If the Leafs lose to Ottawa, the next day is a tough one. I have to put up with people who treat me like we are in high school, and that we are drinking buddies, and we are not. And if I say anything around trying to enforce my boundaries, well then I get labelled as a sore loser. The saying in Ottawa is that all Leaf fans are assholes, and quite honestly, I don't like being labelled an asshole. So if I spin out during an Ottawa game, try and keep in mind that the next couple of days are going to be bad for me, and there is very little I can do about it. I'll try and keep it in perspective, but I may fail, if other things in my life are weighing me down.
I bring this up because it ties into why I come here. For me, I just don't want to feel like I am alone in some of this. I sometimes feel like I am on an island here in Ottawa. Over the last couple of years, I've stopped advertising I am a Leaf fan because it just makes things so much easier. Sometimes it still comes out, because someone who knows will out me to a greater group. For example, I play two pick up games a week. Nobody I play hockey with knows I am a Leaf fan. Just don't want the hassle, because other people go other the top trying to twist the knife. I don't twist the knife on other people, and I don't want it twisted on me, but some people just don't understand that. I've actually said at a party "You found out I'm a Leaf fan an hour ago. In that hour you have done nothing but insult me because of the hockey team I follow. Which one of us do you think is the asshole in this scenario?"
When things are going bad though I come here because having someone provide counter spin to my spinning out of control actually helps. Then I get upset though because I have annoyed other people, and that isn't really my goal, so there is a happy medium in there somewhere that needs to found. Again, I could communicate better why I am spinning out of control.
My rambling here is that on the surface, the over the top negativity may be annoying but it may be coming from somewhere that we don't know about. Maybe the person wants the fight because that's how they get through it, maybe they just want to be heard so that it doesn't stay bottled up, or maybe they are just hyper competitive and can't take loses. We can brush it off, and make it a rule for the forum that you can't be over the top negative, but I think that will just lead to this forum becoming an echo chamber.
YYZ
Well-known member
Sports fandom gives people an identity. A false identity but an identity none the less. If that identity is threatened in anyway, the negativity comes out. No one wants to be labeled a loser. "Your" team lost the game so therefor you are labeled a loser.
Listen to how people talk. "WE WON!" Really? WE won? What did you do? You sat on your couch and ate cheezy poofs. People have some twisted sort of entitlement of calling something theirs just because they invest their time, energy and money in sports team you have absolutely no control over and really nothing much to do with them.
As far as what people post here, that's up to them. If they feel the only contribution they can make to a discussion board is showing up with negative remarks, that's up to them.
At the end of the day, this is a discussion board. My old username (Guru Tugginmypuddah) pointed to the absurdity of the mental masturbation that goes on in a discussion board about a sports team that you have no control over. This board had no meaning and no purpose other than entertainment. Shoot the shit with a bunch of other people who happen to cheer for the same team. Makes some jokes, complain some, cheer some, get angry at Bob letting in three goals a game.
Ilya Bryzgalov said it best, "It is only game, why you hef to be mad?".
rjd
Well-known member
I agree on the sports fandom thing. It's such a weird spectrum. You have people that view it solely as entertainment. They are able to detach themselves from the wins and the loses, and it's just a thing that they do, like taking a walk in the park. And then you have others, that invest themselves totally and it becomes part of their identity. I know my fandom swerves into the invest totally lane, but I try and keep it logical and closer to the detached state. It's just hard sometimes.
Then you add in to that mix, that there are certain sports fandoms that are hated by other sports fandoms. I think that if you are a fan of the Leafs, Man United, the Yankees, or the Cowboys (not sure if there is one in basketball. Maybe the Lakers or Celtics, but I don't really get that vibe from basketball fans), you get this universal hate from all other fandoms. If you are a fan of those teams, other fans want to let you know when things go bad. ALL. THE. TIME. So the losses pile on more than the wins.
Now this isn't so bad if you live in Toronto, New York, Dallas or Greater Manchester, because you are amongst a majority of like minded people, so nobody is really trying to bring you down.
However if you live outside that area, and happen to follow one of those teams, man, it can be exhausting. For example, I would love for people to hear the difference between TSN radio in Toronto and Ottawa. In Toronto, they can give Ottawa credit for a hot start. Hayes and company will talk about Ottawa and there is genuine respect in what they are saying. Here in Ottawa, when Matthews was scoring 69 goals, the common refrain was "Well he can score goals, but he isn't really all that good at anything else. Like people want to label him a Selke candidate but he doesn't even kill penalties...." and so on and so forth. It's like they can't actually respect something good happening to the Leafs organization. I have a Facebook friend, that I have had to block multiple times because every time the Leafs lose, he posts the same stupid picture with the caption "And with that game, the Leafs have officially been eliminated from the <INSERT_YEAR> playoffs." Like every time. Who does that?
So yeah, the losses get amplified, and wins just get swept under the rug, because other fandoms just want to bring the Leafs down. And for what? Like you say, I didn't build the team, I didn't sign the contracts, I didn't coach the team, I didn't play in the game. All I did was sit on my coach for 3 hours, eating cheesy poofs (and drank some beer. I also drink during the games).
YYZ
Well-known member
The only answer I have is I just don't care all that much about what other people have to say in regards to the Leafs. I live in the Kitchener-Waterloo area so yes mainly Leaf fans but also see enough other NHL teams flags and sweaters. When I wear a piece of Leaf clothing, particularly a sweater I almost expect to get chirped. It's just sounds coming out of their mouth, who cares?
Years ago I was waiting in line at the grocery store wearing a Leafs sweater. Young kid maybe 5 years old with his mom looks at me and says, "My dad says the Leafs suck". Mom turned beet red and apologized profusely. I told her not to worry the kid and his dad are right.
ZBBM
Well-known member
rjd & yyz, thanks for the discussion. Thoughtful. It's why I've enjoyed coming here for 20 years or whatever. My work is tough for a lot of reasons and this is my escapism.
To the point of this discussion, I'll reshare something I posted a few years ago that I think is both true and kind of funny:
"Are you seriously suggesting that it may not be the wisest thing for us to literally stake our entire sense of self-worth on the outcome of a series of highly random and ultimately trivial events that are contrived to be a surrogate for ancient tribal instincts and whose fate is completely dependent on a collection of young men not particularly noteworthy for their introspective qualities and who bear no close genetic relationship to ourselves?"
To the point of this discussion, I'll reshare something I posted a few years ago that I think is both true and kind of funny:
"Are you seriously suggesting that it may not be the wisest thing for us to literally stake our entire sense of self-worth on the outcome of a series of highly random and ultimately trivial events that are contrived to be a surrogate for ancient tribal instincts and whose fate is completely dependent on a collection of young men not particularly noteworthy for their introspective qualities and who bear no close genetic relationship to ourselves?"
rjd
Well-known member
Don't keep me in suspense, what was the answer
?
Arn
Well-known member
Sport fandom is the weirdest. I often ask myself why, as someone 3250 miles / 5250km away from Toronto how or why I care about the Maple Leafs.
But somehow I do. And this place has given me an outlet for 20 odd years to discuss it with some like minded (and more knowledgable and people who are more immersed in the sport from childhood) people and feel a part of a “community”.
That’s the good side of this internet thing.
But somehow I do. And this place has given me an outlet for 20 odd years to discuss it with some like minded (and more knowledgable and people who are more immersed in the sport from childhood) people and feel a part of a “community”.
That’s the good side of this internet thing.
YYZ
Well-known member
Yes, every day life can seem a little much at times. Sports fandom can give you many things, a sense of belonging to something greater, a sense of camaraderie, a sort of escape from the hum drum of every day. When the escape doesn't give you happiness anymore, that's when things can get ugly.
I use to get way too wound up with the wins and losses. Suddenly one day it became to clear to me that this was no longer healthy and was actually kind of nuts. It was no longer any fun. I didn't need to stop watching, I didn't need to do anything other than realize that if the Leafs win or lose it makes no difference ultimately.
As a PSA, I would encourage anyone struggling with mental health to please ask for professional help.
Also, I have recommended two books over and over again over the years;
The Sedona Method by Hale Dwoskin
The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle
Bill_Berg
Well-known member
Watching the Jays win those two Series, and last year's near miss, and the Raptors in 2019 are among my favorite memories. But not just the end, the whole trip.
My kids refer to the Springer Dinger as the Daddy Happy Dance home run.
I want more of that.
I meet people and they see my June 5th, 1989 Blue Jays keychain and we talk about '92, and '93.
I want more of that.
I have very little of that with the Leafs. Talking about a missed high stick call does not give the dopamine rush.
I have fought hard to not let the lows bring me down, and I think I'm in a good place. Wasn't always.
But I still want what I have with the Jays and Raptors with the Leafs. Above all other sports teams I want that with the Leafs. I want those memories with my kids. The disappointment of not having them. The fear of never having them does piss me off, but you can't let it dominate you for sure.
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