Blackhawks @ Leafs - Dec. 16th, 7:00pm - TSN4

[Joe S.]

Burke??

The thing with Burke is you could see he had a plan. It didn't work but you can see the logic of what he wanted to accomplish. It just that his biggest move backfired so spectacularily that it was hard to recover from.

I'm not a Burke fan, but he wasn't incompetent like the other goofballs we've discussed.

 

[Joe S.]

Blaming Treliving for Marner seems unfair. He tried to trade him multiple times and Marner said no. That one is on Shanahan. Expecting him to come in and trade one of the core in the week he had to make a move after Shanahan and Dubas had mutual meltdowns wasn't fair. I don't think he was hired with the control to do that.

The rest of it...yeah he gets full blame

I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly but didn't Dubas want to attempt to trade Marner in the window that was availabke and Shanahan blocked him?

I think that's why he was looked for autonomy and that led to his departure.

Not sure if that's entirely accurate but that's what I remember.

 

[cabber24]

Oh for heaven's sake.

They pull one out of their donkeyhole after playing like that very orifice for the first 54 minutes (as you later said yourself). Against a crummy team without their best player. Yeah, everything is just fine.

Choose to skate? Waiting for someone to do something? What does that even mean?

Everything that's wrong with this team is summed up in Matthews' "I can't hear you" gesture after scoring. Yes, Auston, the crowd gets to boo your sorryass team when it lays another egg at home.

They played truly awful, and the booing wasn't loud enough.

 

[Bender]

Hardly.

Treliving's taken a team that emphasized the strengths of its best players, let the best all-round player get away for nothing, and now has turned it into an unwatchable, unlikable dog's breakfast that ekes out just enough wins to stay in the middle of the pack in a Conference of Mediocrity. Nope, he's worse than JFJ.

If you think Shanahan tied Dubas' hands but would've allowed Tre to trade Mitch as soon as he arrived I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[Joe S.]

Hardly.

Treliving's taken a team that emphasized the strengths of its best players, let the best all-round player get away for nothing, and now has turned it into an unwatchable, unlikable dog's breakfast that ekes out just enough wins to stay in the middle of the pack in a Conference of Mediocrity. Nope, he's worse than JFJ.

I want Treliving gone but he's not worse that JFJ. He hasn't really made that 'set the franchise back a decade' move like JFJ did. JFJ and Floyd Smith are in a league by themselves as incompetent Leafs GMs.

 

[Bender]

Does he think we couldn’t see him screaming at the team about having 1 shot on goal?

I listened to Colaiacovo this morning and he basically said what is he supposed to do? He got his message across on the bench and there's no use burying them in the media and he called the guys out the game before. He basically said you can't give them the gears all the time and expect it to work, not that much has with this team this year. But it isn't surprising that their highest paid and most important player plays like he's aged 5-10yrs overnight that the team is worse and when Matthews buries a PPG and gets an assist that the team can pull out a win.

 

[Joe S.]

Everything that's wrong with this team is summed up in Matthews' "I can't hear you" gesture after scoring. Yes, Auston, the crowd gets to boo your sorryass team when it lays another egg at home.

I 100% felt the same way when I saw Matthews do that. My immediate thought was 'seriously?'

 

[Bender]

The thing with Burke is you could see he had a plan. It didn't work but you can see the logic of what he wanted to accomplish. It just that his biggest move backfired so spectacularily that it was hard to recover from.

I'm not a Burke fan, but he wasn't incompetent like the other goofballs we've discussed.

Absolutely he's not as bad as JFJ but unless the board wanted a retool on the fly, no rebuild then he absolutely came in with the wrong plan.

 

[rdowdall]

I'm not saying they're good; I'm just reiterating that I don't believe the issue is strategy (maybe some situational tactics).

The overall strategy of trying to control both slots, push play north, forecheck to force turnovers, and simply get pucks to the net with traffic is sound. There are some tactics that need polish and refinement (e.g. DZ forcing the centre to chase every corner battle so the D can stack the crease was not working) and they're certainly short on horses in some foundational areas (breakout facilitation, down Tanev and to a lesser degree Carlo).

The issue is passivity in the skater group. I get that the regular season is a marathon comprised of mini marathons (games) that are composed of dead sprints (shifts), so some pacing is required. Loved the way Hyman went full tilt every shift, but he was dead by Round 1 when he was with the Leafs, so that's probably not the best approach. On the outside, it looks like they've quit on the coaches. Coaching message to the media is focusing on the positives (where there aren't that many).

Keefe/Dubas system was great for the regular season because the skaters were encouraged to just hold the puck in uncontested ice and rely on super skilled passing and elite finish to make it count. It bore out over many seasons that trying to carry that method into the madness of playoff hockey is meaningless.

I thought this game was pretty stale from the Leaf side for most of the game; they had a couple of good pushes that hit the post (Joshua) or got stuffed (Knies, Robertson), but that's why teams are supposed to try to attack more frequently (shot share stats). They did not breakout the puck well, so they could not forecheck effectively, and generally just played on their flats and heels for most of the game. They were fortunate Chicago is not good and only made them pay a little bit.

A good faceoff play and Knies/Nylander dragging their checks to the slot opened up a goal for OEL and that went straight to everyone's legs. You could see them winning puck battles all over the ice again because they were on their toes and making the Hawks make mistakes. They generated offense per the strategy outlined above: Puck on net through traffic, Nylander heavy forecheck forced turnover, Stecher and Joshua combine for essentially a forced turnover by Knight.

Seems like they just don't want to play that way, or have a hard time engaging. It takes more energy to play this style, but it probably has a higher chance of success in the playoffs.

 

[rdowdall]

I want Treliving gone but he's not worse that JFJ. He hasn't really made that 'set the franchise back a decade' move like JFJ did. JFJ and Floyd Smith are in a league by themselves as incompetent Leafs GMs.

Gord Stellick should also be up there, but I don't necessarily think he was put in a position to succeed.

 

[Chris]

Last night's game might have been the worst possible outcome for this lazy and or poorly coached group. Instead of coming out blazing with something to prove against a (supposedly weak) opponent, or just losing and maybe having something change, they took the usual course of going through the motions for 40+ minutes, yet managed to come out with a win largely because of a seeing eye shot (a good play but still, it could have as easily hit the goalie or someone else) and a goalie misplay. So why play hard to start when you can sneak out with a win in the last 6 minutes...never mind it's against a weak team missing a player responsible for over half their offense.

The Matthews thing did bother me too (talk about tone deaf), as did his comments the other game about "we all need to be better" and no focus on his own play. Does he really not see it, is he in denial...maybe it's better if he isn't made available to speak after games.

I'm really close to checking out for the season unless this group of players shows me something in a hurry. Thursday would be a good time to start.

 

[cw]

I 100% felt the same way when I saw Matthews do that. My immediate thought was 'seriously?'

I asked the screen displaying that "R U tone deaf and oblivious to how poorly the team has played?"
It appears that our Captain is.

As for Berube's PC, that struck me as a coach who is getting on thin ice with his players.
We saw him yelling on the bench. He chewed the leadership out recently. They're not responding very consistently.
Eventually, like most teams, they will tune out the yelling.
Berube knows he has to pick his spots more carefully now. So he was mellow in the press scrum after the game.
The media, the fans at the game, the players and those watching on the tube all saw what went on.
After playing 39% of the regular season, there is something wrong with this team that they have been unable to solve.

 

[Joe S.]

The Matthews thing did bother me too (talk about tone deaf), as did his comments the other game about "we all need to be better" and no focus on his own play. Does he really not see it, is he in denial...maybe it's better if he isn't made available to speak after games.

You know who never did anything like that - Sundin. And quite frankly I don't think Tavares would do anything like that.

If this was game 6 in the playoffs - fine. But a random Tuesday in December when the team has been playing like shit? That's lame.

 

[Andy007]

Speaking of whom....man, do I miss Sundin...

 

[ZBBM]

I don't understand the comments about Treliving maybe not having the authority — he was hired as the GM, as far as I know he's been able to make whatever moves he wants. In any case, his Job 1 was mending fences with Marner (if they in fact needed to be mended) and getting him re-signed. No competent GM lets a player like that get away, period.

So in my book he rates lower than JFJ, as if it really matters.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly but didn't Dubas want to attempt to trade Marner in the window that was availabke and Shanahan blocked him?

I think that's why he was looked for autonomy and that led to his departure.

Not sure if that's entirely accurate but that's what I remember.

The Marner stuff was speculation that was never confirmed. There were also rumblings about Shanahan blocking other moves Dubas wanted to make (iirc, something around moving Knies+ for Hagel and Fleury was the one that made the rounds), which would have also contributed to him looking for more autonomy.

 

[azzurri63]

Somewhat related to this, I couldn't really believe Berube's comments on how the game went (courtsey of MLHS):



The first period sucked, the second period sucked, the first half of the 3rd period sucked, the top line sucked aside from 2 shifts. Don't get why you'd sugar-coat any of that.

I turned the tv on with about 9 minutes left and not long after OEL scored. You are absolutely right hard to watch this team especially it's stars. We are 30 some games into the season and lucky if we've played 5 good games. Team is a mess. Not sure what 34 was trying to convey to the fans with his celebration on the tying goal. I almost get the feeling that all the boos didn't matter I tied the game up so STFU. He did nothing all game from the posts I read prior to the goal and this has been the case all season.

 

[cabber24]

I didn't mind the Matthews "hand-to-ear gesture". You want something to cheer about? How's that? Let's go!

It's not a salute gate dig at the fans. Phaneuf was stupider than Domi FFS.

 

[herman]

My read on it is that each front office change is an exercise in overcorrection.

JFJ was rudderless because the Board that hired him was opposed in principle to his preferred course.

The Burke/Nonis group was a leaky sieve with a plan but no logical techniques to deal with the reality of the salary cap and flooded the roster with large bodies instead of players.

Shanahan rightly corrected that with an attempt at industry best practices and got Lou to come in and lock things down with professionalism. Team first, individuals don't exist sort of locked down. Babcock was his own kettle of fish; he had the older generation of players really going though.

Shanahan recognized the rigidity and misalignment with the future of the team and elevated Dubas as he intended after seasoning with the Marlies, and the younger superstar players rebelled against Babcock's egomaniacal control and machinations. Dubas handed the team over to Keefe who, with Dubas and Shanahan's direction/blessing, capitulated on every single possible player demand (primarily Matthews-Marner together 4eva) and instituted a successful regulation playstyle that really drove up those two's production levels, banking that a happy superstar core would also produce beautifully at crunch time. I think a more seasoned Dubas and Keefe would probably want to do that differently next time, because they truly don't play hungry (see MacKinnon, McDavid type of hunt for your own chances hunger).

Post-Dubas/Keefe is swinging back towards that lunchpail full team effort approach, rather than superstar catering style. Results are mixed as the incumbent superstars are understandably chafing. I have seen them pull it off at times, especially when one of the stars is out, so I know the personnel is physically capable. Which makes the inconsistent and occasionally listless play quite damning.

 

[rdowdall]

The Marner stuff was speculation that was never confirmed. There were also rumblings about Shanahan blocking other moves Dubas wanted to make (iirc, something around moving Knies+ for Hagel and Fleury was the one that made the rounds), which would have also contributed to him looking for more autonomy.

The other rumour was that Dubas had a deal for Hyman done, but Shanahan said no because he didn't think Hyman would last the length of the contract.