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2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

Also, why can't teams PK without a guy like Marner? There's plenty of PK specialists out there. I'd argue that maybe they were playing Mitch & Auston too much on the PK and it ended up gassing them.

Performance is a function of skills, opportunity, chemistry, and confidence. There have been written and podcasted stories about how Marner's camp would throw 'conniptions' if he didn't get top line minutes and roles. The Lou/Babcock* front office told them to stuff it. The Dubas/Keefe front office capitulated to them on every possible front because they believed a happy Mitch was an effective Mitch and banked on that leading to championships. The Treliving/Berube group rode it out for one year (can't put toothpaste back in the tube**, and it wasn't worth the fight) to see if they could make it work one last time if the rest of the structure could help push it over the top.

* Game recognizes game. Toxic narcissist clocked his competition immediately and worked extra hard to display dominance.
** Marner indicated that things took a turn for the sour 2 years ago

I'm optimistic about this iteration of the Leafs being able to get more out of its depth players. The Berube game rewards consistent effort and doesn't put a huge burden of requirement on fancy skill, while still giving room for said fancy skill to make hay. There are chances for forwards to vie for top roles in all three phases of the game (other than 1C), to reward strong stretches of performance, to give reps to multiple looks so the team has options when the situation calls for them, and for the group to really support each other as a team regardless of role.
 
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I guess Joseph Woll is going to be away for fair bit of time.
At least most/all of camp, based on the fact it's a PTO and not an actual contract. Was wondering if they'd look to add a veteran #3 regardless of Woll's status. Thought they might consider claiming Ingram if Woll was going to miss real time.
 
At least most/all of camp, based on the fact it's a PTO and not an actual contract. Was wondering if they'd look to add a veteran #3 regardless of Woll's status. Thought they might consider claiming Ingram if Woll was going to miss real time.

1.95M though
 
Similar to Domi, but not a defensive blackhole, but also not quite as adept as Domi with the passes. Same weakness of forcing seam passes though.
 
They hadn't figured it out since the 16-17 season anyhow so it's not like we had solved anything. We already knew the square peg didn't fit and I'm looking forward to trying different things.

Also, why can't teams PK without a guy like Marner? There's plenty of PK specialists out there. I'd argue that maybe they were playing Mitch & Auston too much on the PK and it ended up gassing them.
Why can't teams score goals without a guy like Matthews? Because they can. But the vast majority of players scoring those goals won't score as many because they're not as good as Matthews - just like most forwards are not as good as Mitch Marner.

Whether it was PK, PP or ES, Babcock, Keefe and Berube all played Marner a lot -in the regular season and playoffs. Since his arrival 2016-17, Marner has more ice time than any other forward -in the regular season and playoffs. With their coaching jobs on the line, Marner was the forward Leafs coaches used the most - in part because beyond his top 10 scoring, he was so good defensively. Those coaches actions on his ice time speak louder than any words or any nonsense on DNA from a GM who has never won anything as a player or executive - he's barely won a playoff round.

"Let's get rid of the guy we collectively think should be on the ice more than anyone else!!" Doesn't make a lot of sense. Obviously, none of those coaches, including Berube, thought Marner was a big problem for this team or they wouldn't have given him all that ice time.

Can't very well blame Leafs coaching judgement since Team Canada coaches Bruce Cassidy, Peter DeBoer, Rick Tocchet and Misha Donskov as assistant coaches for two time Cup winner Jon Cooper gave Marner the 3rd most ice time among CDN forwards behind McDavid & MacKinnon at the Four Nations Cup. Cooper raved about Marner who he also coached at the World Championships. 92 members of the media rated Marner the 9th best hockey player at the Four Nations Tournament. All Star. Selke finalist. His DNA is so bad, Team Canada wants Marner to represent Canada in the Olympics. I didn't notice the DNA of Maccelli, Roy & Joshua on Olympic rosters.

Recent Cup winners George McPhee & Kelly McCrimmon of Vegas who signed Marner aren't exactly stupid hockey people either. They got Marner for not much: “Nic (Roy) gave us great competitive advantage as a 4th-line center,” McCrimmon July 1, 2025. On a less center deep team like the Leafs, Roy will probably fill a 3rd line role. Better than getting nothing.

It was well known in early 2025 that the cap was rising and it was very likely to wipe out much of the UFA market that might have filled some of Marner's cap void. I think Leafs management's decision to overlook that might go down as one of the dumber things Leafs GMs have done over the last 60 years. A hunk of the Rubik's cube problem they currently face was self inflicted. If Marner was perceived as the real problem with why this team fell short or its DNA, his coaches would have cut his ice time years ago and he would not continue to be one of the highest paid and well regarded forwards in this league.

Marner, Pacioretty & Holmgren have been replaced (so far) by Maccelli, Joshua & Roy who collectively played only 3 games less but collectively scored 71 fewer points which is part of the reason why odds makers have dropped the Leafs Cup chances down. They're more likely to not be as good.

Roy as a PKer was 5th last year in SH TOI and almost non existent as a PKer in the playoffs. He's been 4th in prior seasons.
Maccelli was non existent as a PKer. Joshua was way down the list as a PKer last season. He was 5th in prior seasons. When he played, Holmberg may have PKed more than all three of them and then there is Marner to make up for. And the plot thickens to dump the other two top PKers: Kampf & Jarnkrok.

A bunch of the Selke votes and ice time Marner's received have been in part due to his role as the Leafs top forward PKer.

" I'd argue that maybe they were playing Mitch & Auston too much on the PK and it ended up gassing them. "
If that is true, why didn't GM DNA bring in guys who had proven themselves to have proven DNA on the PK rather than some of the three he did?

I suspect GM DNA was like Colorado: who wanted more dollars to address the bottom six. Colorado dumped Rantanen. Marner was an easy money target with his contractual situation. From that, and failing to fill that void (which many predicted), this franchise of talent is past its best-before-date. Two years from now, from the current roster, ignoring Cowan, Danford or fringe players, they will only have three forwards under 30 years old. and one 29 year old top 6 dman under 30 and one 29 year old goalie under 30. They're down to a run or two before it gradually self destructs from young talent starvation and older player injuries. DNA change to old DNA is not going to play well for long and UFAs like Matthews won't hang around. GM DNA doesn't have a lot of time to get to the promised land.
 
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